Comments on: In a Culture Drawn to ‘Big’, Should the Church Really Be Celebrating ‘Small’? http://www.freshexpressions.ca/2009/03/in-a-culture-drawn-to-%e2%80%98big%e2%80%99-should-the-church-really-be-celebrating-%e2%80%98small%e2%80%99/ Tue, 10 Jan 2012 03:40:27 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Rich Fallis http://www.freshexpressions.ca/2009/03/in-a-culture-drawn-to-%e2%80%98big%e2%80%99-should-the-church-really-be-celebrating-%e2%80%98small%e2%80%99/comment-page-1/#comment-11299 Rich Fallis Mon, 28 Jun 2010 14:44:35 +0000 http://institute.wycliffecollege.ca/?p=844#comment-11299 Hello Pastor Judy! Small or large is not as important as the adherence to scriptural primary issues in my view. Since moving here to the US, I attended two Presbyterian USA churches. At the first (a small church), the Pastor denied the existence of angels, miracles (why pray?), Pontius Pilate and the passion, the virgin birth of Christ, creation, and so on...He couldn't get six words into the Apostle's Creed without choking. One time he admitted he entered the ministry because of the paycheck. Book of Jude comes to mind. Next on to a large downtown Madison, WI Presbyterian Church. There, behind closed doors, it was decided to ordain a homosex man as a Pastor, who has been living with another man for over a decade. The decision is a betrayal of the PCUSA Constitution and in my view, is a primary issue that perverts scripture. Besides, God's business is not done behind closed doors or in the dark. So I left the denomination. Right now I am attending a non-denominational church in Sun Prairie, WI. Heartland--an offshoot of a mega church in Rockford, Illinois with 8 thousand members. We have maybe 800 attendees each week. The sermons are delivered by video from the Pastor at the Rockford church. He's really quite gifted. What I think makes this work is 1) adherence to Reformed Christian doctrine 2) Trying new ways to preach and spread the good news and 3)Small groups are well entrenched, and there is a men's group that meets each Wednesday morning at 6:30 am. Men in this culture really need to get together. Everything from porn addiction to infidelity to drugs and more is discussed. Nothing goes beyond the room. Just us guys opening up admitting our sins, seeking prayer and redemption. There is a pastor present. So small within a bigger organization is the model that seems to be taking off. Small groups are particularly important I think, because Satan knows time is running out, and so he will be attacking us in greater frequency and strength. Without support from others, it is easier to wound us. The church may well be forced underground in the coming years. So small cells of believers may be the best way to preserve the good news until the Lord's return. Best wishes always to you Pastor Judy. Hello Pastor Judy!

Small or large is not as important as the adherence to scriptural primary issues in my view.

Since moving here to the US, I attended two Presbyterian USA churches. At the first (a small church), the Pastor denied the existence of angels, miracles (why pray?), Pontius Pilate and the passion, the virgin birth of Christ, creation, and so on…He couldn’t get six words into the Apostle’s Creed without choking. One time he admitted he entered the ministry because of the paycheck. Book of Jude comes to mind.

Next on to a large downtown Madison, WI Presbyterian Church.
There, behind closed doors, it was decided to ordain a homosex man as a Pastor, who has been living with another man for over a decade. The decision is a betrayal of the PCUSA Constitution and in my view, is a primary issue that perverts scripture. Besides, God’s business is not done behind closed doors or in the dark. So I left the denomination.

Right now I am attending a non-denominational church in Sun Prairie, WI. Heartland–an offshoot of a mega church in Rockford, Illinois with 8 thousand members. We have maybe 800 attendees each week. The sermons are delivered by video from the Pastor at the Rockford church. He’s really quite gifted.

What I think makes this work is 1) adherence to Reformed Christian doctrine 2) Trying new ways to preach and spread the good news and 3)Small groups are well entrenched, and there is a men’s group that meets each Wednesday morning at 6:30 am. Men in this culture really need to get together. Everything from porn addiction to infidelity to drugs and more is discussed. Nothing goes beyond the room. Just us guys opening up admitting our sins, seeking prayer and redemption. There is a pastor present.

So small within a bigger organization is the model that seems to be taking off. Small groups are particularly important I think, because Satan knows time is running out, and so he will be attacking us in greater frequency and strength. Without support from others, it is easier to wound us.

The church may well be forced underground in the coming years. So small cells of believers may be the best way to preserve the good news until the Lord’s return.

Best wishes always to you Pastor Judy.

]]> By: Judy Paulsen http://www.freshexpressions.ca/2009/03/in-a-culture-drawn-to-%e2%80%98big%e2%80%99-should-the-church-really-be-celebrating-%e2%80%98small%e2%80%99/comment-page-1/#comment-3458 Judy Paulsen Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:24:55 +0000 http://institute.wycliffecollege.ca/?p=844#comment-3458 I used to think that 'big' or 'small', when it comes to churches, was not the issue, but lately I've been questioning this. The more I talk to pastors of big churches, the more I hear them lament about several things: (1) 'consumerist' tendancies of their people in terms of 'being fed' and being on the receiving end of 'only the most excellent and professional ministry', (2) the lack of connectedness with their neighbourhoods, stemming from a congregation that commutes to get there, (3) the difficulty in getting people to commit to small groups (or significant leadership roles), and (4) the constant search among Christians for the 'latest, best, and coolest' new church .... in other words a lack of authentic relationships that keep people grounded somewhere. I now think there are very significant problems with the large church model. The structure of large churches makes it especially tough for them to fulfill their primary calling of cultivating a counter-cultural community (not just a group of individuals) that points to and joins in God's mission in the world. I'm not saying it can't be done .... but I am saying I don't see it being done very effectively so far. This, of course, in no way lets small churches off the hook. Their structure and size is only an advantage if they are healthy. I used to think that ‘big’ or ‘small’, when it comes to churches, was not the issue, but lately I’ve been questioning this. The more I talk to pastors of big churches, the more I hear them lament about several things: (1) ‘consumerist’ tendancies of their people in terms of ‘being fed’ and being on the receiving end of ‘only the most excellent and professional ministry’, (2) the lack of connectedness with their neighbourhoods, stemming from a congregation that commutes to get there, (3) the difficulty in getting people to commit to small groups (or significant leadership roles), and (4) the constant search among Christians for the ‘latest, best, and coolest’ new church …. in other words a lack of authentic relationships that keep people grounded somewhere.

I now think there are very significant problems with the large church model. The structure of large churches makes it especially tough for them to fulfill their primary calling of cultivating a counter-cultural community (not just a group of individuals) that points to and joins in God’s mission in the world.

I’m not saying it can’t be done …. but I am saying I don’t see it being done very effectively so far. This, of course, in no way lets small churches off the hook. Their structure and size is only an advantage if they are healthy.

]]> By: Ed Leidel http://www.freshexpressions.ca/2009/03/in-a-culture-drawn-to-%e2%80%98big%e2%80%99-should-the-church-really-be-celebrating-%e2%80%98small%e2%80%99/comment-page-1/#comment-3262 Ed Leidel Sat, 14 Mar 2009 12:54:08 +0000 http://institute.wycliffecollege.ca/?p=844#comment-3262 The point is that no one size is better then any other. Each has its own strengths and weakness. The challenge is that our North American culture tends to declare that smallness is simply a steping stone to bigness; and that remaining small is a difficientcy. We are learning (again) that that is just not true in today's changing world. See http://smallchurchcoach.com/readings.aspx . The point is that no one size is better then any other. Each has its own strengths and weakness. The challenge is that our North American culture tends to declare that smallness is simply a steping stone to bigness; and that remaining small is a difficientcy. We are learning (again) that that is just not true in today’s changing world. See http://smallchurchcoach.com/readings.aspx .

]]> By: Jon http://www.freshexpressions.ca/2009/03/in-a-culture-drawn-to-%e2%80%98big%e2%80%99-should-the-church-really-be-celebrating-%e2%80%98small%e2%80%99/comment-page-1/#comment-3237 Jon Sat, 14 Mar 2009 04:47:23 +0000 http://institute.wycliffecollege.ca/?p=844#comment-3237 I have realized in leading Youth services at our church the children enjoy being a part of the large group but they also desire that intimate time of a small group. I agree with the premise of this article that it is absolutely essential especially when it comes to youth to get small if we intend to reach these children at a personal level just like Christ reaches us at a personal level. http://evangelizetheyouth.com/ I have realized in leading Youth services at our church the children enjoy being a part of the large group but they also desire that intimate time of a small group. I agree with the premise of this article that it is absolutely essential especially when it comes to youth to get small if we intend to reach these children at a personal level just like Christ reaches us at a personal level. http://evangelizetheyouth.com/

]]> By: Glenn Gibson http://www.freshexpressions.ca/2009/03/in-a-culture-drawn-to-%e2%80%98big%e2%80%99-should-the-church-really-be-celebrating-%e2%80%98small%e2%80%99/comment-page-1/#comment-3211 Glenn Gibson Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:54:52 +0000 http://institute.wycliffecollege.ca/?p=844#comment-3211 I agree with the challenge made to the "bigger is better" fallacy, but caution against the opposite mistake of "smaller is better" with the some time accompanying danger of missional complacency. The truth is that there are effective larger congregations (just like there are highly missional smaller parishes)! But a closer examination that large missional churches is that they are really just conglomerates of several smaller congregations who are networked in such a way that they can also provide experiences of large group worship. Larger churches must avoid the mistake of thinking that the big corporate encounter is the sum and total of Christian community. Small congregations need to continually stoke their good news passion for those within their reach. To do big church means mastering smallness. To do small church means maintaining a larger vision for others. I agree with the challenge made to the “bigger is better” fallacy, but caution against the opposite mistake of “smaller is better” with the some time accompanying danger of missional complacency. The truth is that there are effective larger congregations (just like there are highly missional smaller parishes)! But a closer examination that large missional churches is that they are really just conglomerates of several smaller congregations who are networked in such a way that they can also provide experiences of large group worship. Larger churches must avoid the mistake of thinking that the big corporate encounter is the sum and total of Christian community. Small congregations need to continually stoke their good news passion for those within their reach. To do big church means mastering smallness. To do small church means maintaining a larger vision for others.

]]> By: Ed Leidel http://www.freshexpressions.ca/2009/03/in-a-culture-drawn-to-%e2%80%98big%e2%80%99-should-the-church-really-be-celebrating-%e2%80%98small%e2%80%99/comment-page-1/#comment-3054 Ed Leidel Tue, 10 Mar 2009 12:53:01 +0000 http://institute.wycliffecollege.ca/?p=844#comment-3054 Small Church: Great Church check my website: http://smallchurchcoach.com The future of small church is particularly hopeful for the next generation for the following reasons... 1. The “flattening” of the economic and technological world means that there will be an equalizing of wealth and information in the years ahead. That means that North America is going to experience a downsizing in all areas of life. Small congregations will become the lifeblood of the Church along with other emerging congregational configurations. Small churches will survive and flourish because they are practical and feasible to operate and maintain. 2. There is a movement in organization away from hierarchical (top down) community toward organic (team culture) community. The New Science talks about the efficiency of fractals, or the smallest recognizble unit of an organism. Small membership communities are like fractals. Fractals can deal with change with speed and efficiency. Top down organizations have more difficulty adopting to change. Small Churches work the best in an ever changing culture because... 1. They are owned and operated by the people. They are faith based co-ops. 2. Everyone has a role. They are places where the ministry of the baptized is most realizable. 3. Small congregations form “real” people. It’s almost impossible to be phony in a small church. Nurture and accountability is everyone’s ministry. 4. Small churches actually adapt to change “better” than any other size community. That is because everyone is involved in the decision making process, so the change when made is owned by all. And , as small churches have fewer people, there are fewer votes to count. 5. Small churches grow faster than large churches. Research done by the Natural Church Development people show that 20 small churches of 50 members will add (in total) 16 time more people in a year then one large church of 1000 members. 6. Small churches are inherently relational. People outcome is always valued over program outcome. Small churches feed our great yearning for intimacy and community (family). 7. Worship is more important in small churches then in any other size configuration. Worship is a homecoming event. You are missed when not present; and you are truly involved when present. Small Church: Great Church
check my website: http://smallchurchcoach.com

The future of small church is particularly hopeful for the next generation for the following reasons…

1. The “flattening” of the economic and technological world means that there will be an equalizing of wealth and information in the years ahead. That means that North America is going to experience a downsizing in all areas of life. Small congregations will become the lifeblood of the Church along with other emerging congregational configurations. Small churches will survive and flourish because they are practical and feasible to operate and maintain.

2. There is a movement in organization away from hierarchical (top down) community toward organic (team culture) community. The New Science talks about the efficiency of fractals, or the smallest recognizble unit of an organism. Small membership communities are like fractals. Fractals can deal with change with speed and efficiency. Top down organizations have more difficulty adopting to change.

Small Churches work the best
in an ever changing culture because…

1. They are owned and operated by the people. They are faith based co-ops.

2. Everyone has a role. They are places where the ministry of the baptized is most realizable.

3. Small congregations form “real” people. It’s almost impossible to be phony in a small church. Nurture and accountability is
everyone’s ministry.

4. Small churches actually adapt to change “better” than any other size community. That is because everyone is involved in the decision making process, so the change when made is owned by all. And , as small churches have fewer people, there are fewer votes to count.

5. Small churches grow faster than large churches. Research done by the Natural Church Development people show that 20 small churches of 50 members will add (in total) 16 time more people in a year then one large church of 1000 members.

6. Small churches are inherently relational. People outcome is always valued over program outcome. Small churches feed our great yearning for intimacy and community (family).

7. Worship is more important in small churches then in any other size configuration. Worship is a homecoming event. You are missed when not present; and you are truly involved when present.

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